We all have our bad apples in our industries, and Realtors are no exception.
With the uprise in the amount of short sales in today’s real estate market, there is more and more short sale fraud being committed by unsavory agents.
A very good friend and colleague of mine Bill Gasset, a Massachusetts Realtor, recently wrote a blog post about short sale investor fraud. His blog post recieved some really heated comments, and I wanted to chime in on the subject.
Bill describes real estate agents taking short sale listings, finding buyers to pay the market value for the home, and than having an investor on the side offer less than market value.
The agent will then submit the investors offer, while telling the buyer who is willing to pay market value that their offer was submitted and they are waiting for approval. What ends up happening is the investors lower offer gets accepted, than the agent and investor use the leftover funds from the unknowing buyer to make an instant profit.
Who’s Committing The Fraud?
The fraud Bill describes makes it hard to determine the culprit. Many of the comments he received claimed that investors are not committing fraud, but the agents are.
They claim that the investors are just looking for a great deal. The fraud has nothing to do with investors purchasing a home for a great price and turning a profit by reselling the home in a flip. They say it’s the agents fault and the investors have nothing to do with it.
Here’s what I think. The short sale agent that is involved with this practice needs to go to jail, lose their license, and face civil liability for the parties who were hurt by their negligence. Of course, I am not an officer of the law, a judge, or a lawyer – this is just my opinion.
Second, the investor may or may not have known what was going on. I understand that an agent could put all of this together without the investor knowing. If that’s the case, I don’t think they should be punished for buying a home for a great deal. However, this is most likely not the case, and here’s my thoughts on why.
If a short sale agent does this once, they probably will do it again or they have been doing it many times before they will get caught. They would need a trusted investor or group of investors to continually submit offers for this scheme to work.
For this to work long term, you would think these investors would know what was going on. They would be ready to submit an offer at anytime once the agent tells them they have a buyer for their listing.
So, to know if an investor is committing fraud along with the agent, we would need to see a pattern, but it would still be very hard to determine investor fraud unless the agent ratted them out.
I do think that if the agent is involved there is a good chance the investor is involved as well, but it’s much harder to prove. Unfortunately, homeowners are in the middle of this fraud, and they are the losers in the end.
Bill’s article is a great read, and the comments were filled with some heated arguments on both sides. If anything can be learned from this debate it’s the fact of how important it is to do your research before putting your financial future in the hands of a real estate agent, a mortgage officer, or any other profession related to real estate.
Be careful out there folks, there are people out there who are trying to profit from your misfortune, and it’s only going to get worse as some agents become more desperate for a paycheck.
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{ 29 comments… read them below or add one }
I commented on Bill’s blog post there. I think Investors get a lot of flack when they are truly an important part of the housing recovery. I fully agree with this statement of yours:
“If anything can be learned from this debate it’s the fact of how important it is to do your research before putting your financial future in the hands of a real estate agent
, a mortgage officer, or any other profession related to real estate.”
In general, there are bad apples everywhere. There is no denying there is fraud and ethically questionable activity by some investors. But most of them have god intentions and a completed short sale is a completed short sale. The homeowner doesn’t care if the house short sold for $10k or $100k (assuming they don’t have a recourse loan after the fact) as long as they get out of the property.
The good investor and agents create situations where everyone makes out as best as possible in what is an unfortunate situation.
Short sale software –
Bill’s a great agent, I think they went at him pretty hard, and he stood up to them pretty well. It’s tough for homeowners out there right now, and being a selling agent dealing with their struggles with them, it takes a toll. We have to look out for our sellers no matter what it does to us. If the deal doesn’t go through because the offer is unsatisfactory, so be it. At least us ethical agents can sleep at night.
I agree, a completed deal is going to be the best route 99% of the time as long as both parties give an equal share to make it work.
Lisa,
I commented some over on Bill’s blog as well.
You did a good job of describing an actual fraudulent transaction. Any SS investors I know would look at the way the end buyer was found first then call the FBI. This is NOT how MOST investors work.
The thing I want to point out is that anyone involved with a deal like you described is committing fraud; the agent, the negotiator and the investor not just the agent. I think you misunderstand the argument when you say that investors are saying it is the agents who are committing fraud and not them. Like I said: anyone involved in a transaction like you describe is committing fraud or at a minimum a party to fraud.
While you describe something like what happened in CT (the agent finds a buyer then the investor steps in) What if the investor is first? This is how it is done most places. In most cases the secondary buyer is not found till after the investor has presented the low offer and started negotiations with the bank. Some even wait till after the lender’s approval to market the property and look for a buyer. Even others close on the property then look for a buyer.
Good luck!
“Second, the investor may or may not have known what was going on. I understand that an agent could put all of this together without the investor knowing.”
Lisa, Lisa, Lisa
How is this possible? What you are describing here is not even possible. How could the agent control everything and leave the investor in the dark? The investor is the buyer in one transaction then the seller in the next. This is not possible to do without being involved somehow.
While you described a fraudulent transaction perfectly it seems as though you really don’t have a good handle on what makes a fraudulent ss transaction.
Here are some tips on what to look for in legitimate deal:
1- Does the contract from investor to seller CLEARLY state their intent to immediately re-sell for a profit. If they plan on leaving the owner in the dark then you need to give then the boot. This addenda in the contract CLEARLY spelling out the investor’s INTENT to re-sell immediately for a profit is also the first DISCLOSURE to the bank as to the intention of the buyer. Don’t know if they told the bank? Ask to see their contract with the seller and look for this important disclosure.
2- What is the negotiators track record for eliminating deficiency and seller consessions.
3- The Investor or listing agent does not have a buyer already lined up. This is a little tricky because the owner can sign whatever contract he thinks to be in his best interest so there may be a higher offer on the table but the owner chooses to work with the investor (could be because of a good track record)
The person who had the higher offer could then decide to buy from the investor. As long as the deal is arms length and there was no previous arraignment between the buyer and the investor it doesn’t matter. In a case like I just described it is harder to be certain the deal is on the up and up.
4- Is the deal “arms length”? Is the investor just planning to lease it back to the owner or a relative? Not cool!
5- Is the investor willing to allow the seller to sell to “their buyer” if they are unsuccessful in negotiating a spread in the transaction or are they just going to walk away? If the investor is unsuccessful in negotiating a low enough price they should be willing to allow someone else to step in on their negotiations and get the property sold EVEN if it means they don’t make a dime. The important thing is to take care of the seller.
Just a few tips!
Sam
I think what most short sale investors have a problem with is the title of the article. Anyone who reads the article completely is NOT going to automatically assume that every investor is a scam artist. We both know however, that there are good and bad Realtors, just as there are good and bad investors.
What I have a problem with is every investor commenting who wants to throw a blind eye to the fact that there ARE investors that commit fraudulent activity. Some of the comments suggesting that they are looking out for the best interests of the seller are ludicrous.
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
Sam 1st comment – I didn’t misunderstand the comment, I felt Bill was pretty clear on his blog about what fraud was being committed, and how he felt he had to watch out for his clients best interests. The situation I am describing is going on all over the country, and it’s not good for anyone.
2nd comment – You’re right that the investor is most likely involved, but it’s also harder to prove. Thanks for all the tips.
Bill – People don’t take the time to read and understand before they open their mouths on the internet. It’s just the way it is, and I do believe your article was legitimate, and the comments weren’t really reacting to the article. It looks like your title worked considering the amount of people who read it! A good title pulls people in, am I right?
Lisa,
You hit right on the problem! Many people read the headlines but don’t take the time to understand the whole article. To most people reading the article, it would appear that all investor short sales were some type of fraud. In my responses to the article, I was very clear that there are good and not so good Realtors and Investors. I read and understood very well the content as well as the intent of the article. As a Realtor and Investor, I am ethical and lawful in my transactions. It was as much, Bill’s refusal to consider the good investors and his condescending replies to me and others that raised my hackles! I learned a long time ago that any argument can be presented in several ways. Bill’s methods of communicating his points were antagonistic rather than persuasive. I don’t know Bill or the type of agent he is, but if he works with other Realtors, title companies, lenders, attorneys and his clients in this manor, I would think that he could have much more success with a little more persuasion and guiding rather than shove it down your throat!
Bill
HI Bill – I can understand where you’re coming from, and am glad you read the article to understand it fully. Comments on a blog and conversations face to face are black and white.
We are a lot more brave sitting behind a computer screen than face to face. I can’t speak for Bill, but I know I have said some things online that I have regretted later. Bill’s a very knowledgeable agent, and I have been following him for a couple years now. I wouldn’t judge him based on that one comment thread. I would recommend you subscribe to his blog and give him the benefit of the doubt. If you still feel you don’t mesh, than at least you can say you gave him a chance. Thanks for the comment!
Bill Patterson – I really don’t see my replies as condescending at all especially given the fact the whole time I was looking at all the truly negative remarks you and your cohorts were making over at Bigger Pockets. Lets be fair here…I challenge you to go back and look at anything I wrote in response to the comments I was getting from all you investors and then go and look at what I was reading over at your investor forum. Please tell me what is more condescending….things like “the dumbest Realtor in the Northeast” or what I wrote in response to you and others. We may not agree with one another but you did not see me making insulting remarks to anyone. There were no personal attacks like what was going on over at Bigger Pockets.
The truth of the matter is you thought your investor forum where all you guys were bashing the hell out of me was safe from my eyes.
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
Hi Bill – I had no idea how ugly this was. I am sorry that people resorted to name calling, that’s uncalled for. Bill you’re very open, and always back up your arguments in a professional manner from what I have seen. There is no need for the name calling period. Thanks Bill for keeping a cool head.
Thanks Lisa! It is pretty hard to get things past me because of my SEO and internet knowledge:) There was a lot more mentioned in that forum besides what I wrote above. It was all name calling, bashing, ect. Even Mr. Patterson was making comments about my picture….apparently he thinks I am a youngster based on my picture. I guess that could be a compliment – LOL
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
LOL – Stay sexy Bill!! I wonder if he knows you have over 25 years experience? Hmm…anyways, if I ever have questions about short sales, the first person on my list is you!
Hi Lisa,
I have to chime in here because I still think people are missing the point. Bill if you’re reading “my panties are still in a bunch” so let me pull them out of my a$$. Thank you for such a gracious comment though.
“Bill describes real estate agents taking short sale listings, finding buyers to pay the market value for the home, and than having an investor on the side offer less than market value.”
One of my issues with Bill’s post is he is describing a case where TWO REAL ESTATE AGENTS got caught for fraud. There was NO real estate INVESTOR on the side in the Connecticut case. AGAIN let me be clear. There was NO REAL ESTATE INVESTOR INVOLVED IN THE CONNECTICUT CASE but there certainly was TWO REAL ESTATE AGENTS. That was the example that Bill used in his article to show INVESTOR FRAUD. Now, Renee at the end of all the posts did give a case of investor fraud, and I challenge ANY agent out there…ANY REALTOR to find me more than 5 cases of short sale fraud involving an investor conviction because you won’t find them.
This is my problem. We all have the example of the Connecticut case, so yes, that’s clearly fraud, but the big problem I have is telling the general pubic at large there is so much short sale fraud out there because THERE ISN’T. Mortgage fraud is the tree and short sale fraud is the apple. There are thousands of apples that aren’t short sale fraud. There is LOTS of mortgage fraud out there, but there is NOT LOTS OF SHORT SALE FRAUD and that’s why when I questioned Bill very specifically about cases of known short sale fraud, he could not answer it and I suppose very few people could, so to TITLE an article BEWARE of INVESTOR SHORT SALE FRAUD is completely ridiculous. There are very few known arrests and cases of actual short sale fraud and no reputable investor will go anywhere near a short sale flip without having a HEFTY plate of full disclosures available for everyone involved and THAT is what keeps short sale fraud cases to near zero.
It’s misleading, poor judgment, bad article writing etc., to write about a group of people when there are no facts to back it up.
Hey everyone…guess what? There is a TON of mortgage fraud out there huh? So watch out for those slimy short sale investors because they’ll come after you. Give me an accurate statistic of how many arrests there have been and cases of short sale fraud and I’ll graciously eat crow, but standing on a soap box telling homeowners to watch out for something that you can’t provide a case on is just piss poor. Bill wrote that article and provided a case with two real estate agents. Only Renee in her comments showed an example of investor fraud.
This is how scary all of this is. This is from the FBI website:
“Short-sale fraud schemes are difficult to detect since the lender agrees to the transaction, and the incident is not reported to internal bank investigators or the authorities. As such, the extent of short sale fraud nationwide is unknown. A real estate short sale is a type of pre-foreclosure sale in which the lender agrees to sell a property for less than the mortgage owed. In a typical short sale scheme, the perpetrator uses a straw buyer to purchase a home for the purpose of defaulting on the mortgage. The mortgage is secured with fraudulent documentation and information regarding the straw buyer. Payments are not made on the property loan so that the mortgage defaults. Prior to the foreclosure sale, the perpetrator offers to purchase the property from the lender in a short-sale agreement. The lender agrees without knowing that the short sale was premeditated. The mortgage owed on the property often equals or exceeds 100 percent of the property’s equity ”
Notice something? Even the FBI doesn’t have exact conviction rates of how much short sale fraud is out there. Their definition has to do with straw buyers, having homeowners purposely default, false documentation, etc. No investor that makes short sales their LIVELIHOOD would ever THINK of trying to do anything like using a straw buyer, falsifying docs, etc. Would YOU or anyone else jeopardize your livelihood? Would you jeopardize your means of living? NO WAY. No investor doing this for their living would do this.
I’m sure there are scam artists out there, including Realtors, agents, investors, mortgage brokers etc., but I believe wholeheartedly the “bad apples” do NOT represent the masses and I would never make a blanket statement saying BEWARE of those SHORT SALE REALTORS because it could be a “scam”, which is what Bill essentially wrote.
Anyone can stand and wave their arms, “Hey look out for mortgage fraud, there is a ton of it everywhere” and scare the crap out of unknowing homeowners, but if I were writing the same type of article to make homeowners be AWARE of a particular group of people, you bet your ass I would have backed it up with case statistics and convictions. Not hearsay.
Charlotte – I read that comment of Bills, and it was not his normal commentary I have come to expect from him. Give the guy a break, he was clearly attacked and probably regrets saying it, but he has the balls to leave it on his website. I don’t agree with name calling, and I am sorry you had to deal with that comment, truly.
You said: “One of my issues with Bill’s post is he is describing a case where TWO REAL ESTATE AGENTS got caught for fraud. There was NO real estate INVESTOR on the side in the Connecticut case. AGAIN let me be clear. There was NO REAL ESTATE INVESTOR INVOLVED IN THE CONNECTICUT CASE but there certainly was TWO REAL ESTATE AGENTS. That was the example that Bill used in his article to show INVESTOR FRAUD. Now, Renee at the end of all the posts did give a case of investor fraud, and I challenge ANY agent out there…ANY REALTOR to find me more than 5 cases of short sale fraud involving an investor conviction because you won’t find them.”
Define real estate investor. Many real estate investors ARE agents, just because they have a license doesn’t mean they are not investors. Also, I didn’t see anywhere in Bill’s article where he talks about two agents committing fraud. I read hypothetical situations where short sale fraud would occur. I don’t believe his article is misleading whatsoever. His blog is an opinion blog, he basis his posts on his work experience, his 25 years of real estate knowledge, and his opinions.
If you really want to attack false information being fed to the public, you would be better off going after the likes of FOX News, big media, and the government instead of attacking a Realtor explaining his opinion on his personal blog. ‘
Why is this Connecticut case so ingrained into your arguments? For every crime prosecuted, how many go unnoticed? Bill is clearly giving people information that may help prevent an unsuspecting victim based on his real estate knowledge. Besides there are plenty of un-prosecuted fraud cases that you clearly believe is occurring based on your argument here: “Notice something? Even the FBI doesn’t have exact conviction rates of how much short sale fraud is out there.”
As Realtors, one of the fundamental cores of our profession is to provide real estate education to our clients. Bill is clearly providing hypothetical situations in which any number of people may benefit from by being more cautious about the decisions they make when it comes to choosing a Realtor. Yes he doesn’t provide exact cases, but that’s not what his post was about. His post was about hypothetical situations for education purposes only.
You said: “No investor that makes short sales their LIVELIHOOD would ever THINK of trying to do anything like using a straw buyer, falsifying docs, etc. Would YOU or anyone else jeopardize your livelihood? Would you jeopardize your means of living? NO WAY. No investor doing this for their living would do this.”
Where is your proof? Do you have exact sources to back up this claim? You’re being completely hypocritical here with a false blanket statement. People put their livelihoods and others on the line everyday for profit. Just look at the state of the real estate, mortgage, and banking industries. Notice anything? Yeah, it’s in turmoil because people put other peoples livelihoods on the back burner for the almighty dollar.
Charlotte, I do not want to get in a back and forth with you. All I want is for people to be more cautious with the decisions they make when it comes to their entire financial futures. If we can save one homeowner from being taken advantage of by a shady real estate agent, investor, shark, mortgage professional, or any other entity. Than I feel it’s worth it to stand on the proverbial podium waving our arms and spouting warnings to impressionable and distressed homeowners. Is it not better to be safe than sorry? Is it not better to try and educate others where others have failed? I believe this is what Bill’s intentions where as I read the article, and appreciate Bill’s willingness to stand up to everyone who bashed him.
Hi Lisa,
“Also, I didn’t see anywhere in Bill’s article where he talks about two agents committing fraud. I read hypothetical situations where short sale fraud would occur. ”
Exactly my point. The case he highlighted in his blog was about two agents, which was not representative of his title of INVESTOR FRAUD.
“Yes he doesn’t provide exact cases, but that’s not what his post was about. ”
His post was about BEWARE of INVESTOR SHORT SALE FRAULD.
” All I want is for people to be more cautious with the decisions they make when it comes to their entire financial futures. If we can save one homeowner from being taken advantage of by a shady real estate agent, investor, shark, mortgage professional, or any other entity.”
AMEN – I think we can agree on that, so for me the title of the post should be about how a homeowner could be taken advantage by an Agent, Mortgage Broker, Realtor, Investor etc., but unfortunately it was the INVESTORS that were singled out in the blog.
Charlotte – I am unaware of the case, and I can not really say much about it, so I will keep my mouth shut on that.
Maybe the title could have been different, but I think he used his title to draw in the eyeballs, and for Google to show his blog when people search terms related to short sale fraud. One thing you may not know about Bill is the fact he is an SEO expert. Because of that blog post he has gotten a lot of marketing to his blog, generated talk about him and his company, and it shows up very high for the term short sale fraud in search engines. The title is everything when it comes to marketing a blog post.
Charlotte you seem very intelligent and I wouldn’t want you as an enemy. I appreciate your comments, and adding value to my readers. As long as we are using our knowledge to help people, I think we can all get along.
“but I think he used his title to draw in the eyeballs,”
I agree. It’s clearly evident that this whole thing is a big drum up of business for Bill.
I’m not here to make any enemies, but it’s important that the entire picture is presented and not just the portion that you wish the public to see.
Lisa,
Please read both, Bill’s article responses and the BP thread and compare the timelines of the comments. I would not say anything on line that I would not say face to face with whom I am speaking with. I have not said anything that would be considered out of line and if my comment on Bill’s picture making him look younger and having less experience in real estate than me is disturbing to him, I apologize. I wish people mistook me for a younger man! I take part in several on line forums and consider what and how I state as my opinions or facts as representing my professional image. I take care, even when I am angry, to present an image that will not damage my credibility or status as a professional. When Bill answered the BP thread, I welcomed him as did several other BP members. I still submit that Bill started the personal attacks and condescending remarks and some of the attacked, responded with more force than others. That is their choice and I can’t say that I blame them.
From what I have read, Lisa, you appear to be much more adept in dealing with people and I would be inclined to much prefer doing business with you, than with Bill. Thanks for taking the time to consider a Realtor Investor’s point of view!
Bill
Such a true statement:
You hit right on the problem! Many people read the headlines but don’t take the time to understand the whole article
In all fairness, I can be guilty of that fairly regularly too. There is so much content I end up skimming a lot and sometimes I really have to force myself to slow down and actually absorb what I’m reading, haha.
Anyway, everyone can and should be cordial. The more we all work together to create win-win situations for banks, the struggling homeowners, and ourselves; the better off we all are. I don’t begrudge anyone, an investor or otherwise, making moeny on a short sale, as long as it’s done ethically. Let’s face it – the gurus are wrong (I wrote about this in my most recent blog post http://www.shortsaleartisan.com/blog/2010/08/25/how-to-avoid-getting-scammed-by-real-estate-and-short-sale-gurus/) – no one makes a million dollars investing in short sales spending 10 minutes a day doing it.
Real investors spend a lot of time and energy bringing deals together that may have otherwise not have happened. Those investors should get paid for their time, like realtors get paid for theirs out of commissions.
As long as everything is disclosed, and all parties in a transaction are aware of what the others are doing and agree to it, there should be no problem.
Charlotte – Please find in my article anywhere a mention about the CT case you constantly refer to. Who says that this is what I was talking about??? Lisa hit the nail on the head very clearly in her response to you. The intention of the article is to make people aware that these kind of activities do go on. You seem intent on trying to contradict what every major news medium in the county is reporting on. Just because there are not many public cases on display does not mean this kind of thing is not happening. Why don’t you want people to know….because it may hurt your business???
As far as my comment to you about not getting your panties in a bunch that is a figure of speech. It means you need to calm down in case you don’t understand the comment. It is not a personal attack like I was getting from all you investors both on my blog as well as other places where you all hang out.
You also do not understand how the internet and article writing works. Have you ever heard of the term “link bait”. You might want to Google the term. The title is very important. It is obvious that the title worked for creating interest. Lisa is correct in her explanation to you about that as well.
Bill – I honestly could care less about anything you or anyone else said about me. I will hold my head high because the intent of my article was to make people aware that shady things can and do happen in short sales.
Please give me an example of where I attacked anyone? Please don’t tell me it is the panties in a bunch line either because that is a figure of speech. That is not a personal attack!!! Now go look at your investor forum Bill and the remarks that were being made about me. There is a distinct difference!
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
Bill G.
You wrote “Please find in my article anywhere a mention about the CT case you constantly refer to. Who says that this is what I was talking about???”
Believe it or not this IS THE ONLY CASE where this type of transaction has ever been prosecuted by the FBI! Sure Corelogic has lots to say about lender losses and calling sucpision to all transaction where the property is quickly re-sold but reports are just a marketing ploy much like your own article because they are just trying to sell their services.
Sam I really can’t believe that is what you think. I would be confident betting you a large sum of money that the CT case will be one of many that are prosecuted.
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
I agree there will likely be some more convictions just as there are convictions of agents falsifying income statements or down payment amounts. This doesn’t keep you from continuing as an agent does it? Of course it doesn’t! It shouldn’t. Why? Because you are in the business of keeping your business above board.
We are the ones in the short sale business and keeping ahead of the requirements/hurdles to make the transaction legal and above board. So your speculation about more convictions coming is not a logical reason to stop buying/reselling short sales as an investor. It is logical to make sure we aren’t trying to pull one over on anyone involved lender or seller.
Logic tells me one thing in all this. If you can close 100% of your shorts and the national average is only 23% that means there are agents having some serious trouble out there. Consider the FACT that only 13% of short sales close in my area and that is RETAIL sales.
Sam of course not. I will also continue to say I don’t have a problem with you doing what you do. I do have a problem with an investor who I don’t know asking to take over the transaction for a seller I represent. Agents that do this are opening themselves up to lawsuits in the future if anything goes wrong in the transaction. The Seller hired me and my team. They surely did not hire someone they don’t know.
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
Bill then maybe the title of your article should have been – “I have a problem with an investor that wants to take over my short sale” Seriously Bill. How many investors are clammoring at your listings? I’d love to know how many investors have wanted to take them over.
The article title is what bothers me the most and I know all about SEO. You did a damn good job with this one.
You could have titled it – Examples of short sale fraud
When to know you’re involved in short sale fraud
or any bazillion other titles, but the fact that you singled out investors in your title is one of my biggest issues.
You could have taken out the word investor throughout the whole article and used SCAMMERS – or FRAUDSTERS and not singled out a particular profession. Let’s face it, there are MANY professions that are out there scamming. I think you and I can at least agree on that. What I take issue with is you singling out investors. While I realize you don’t mean ALL investors it’s the fact you singled out that particular group and chose that as your title.
You are characterizing an entire group of individuals according to the unethical or immoral conduct of a small number of individuals belonging to that group, so now the rest of us are all guilty by association. Get it!! I think that’s why we’re all pretty angry. The sheer fact you are claiming not ALL investors are fraudsters is pointless because the damage was done already. You do an excellent job of stereotyping and generalizing a poor job of providing facts to support your “opinions” about investors, because all you have is an OPINION, you have NO EXPERIENCE working with an investor.
“Please find in my article anywhere a mention about the CT case you constantly refer to. Who says that this is what I was talking about??? Lisa hit the nail on the head very clearly in her response to you. The intention of the article is to make people aware that these kind of activities do go on.”
From the FBI website:
Two Connecticut Real Estate Agents Charged with Engaging in Short Sale Mortgage Fraud Schemes
“According to court documents and statements made in court, NATERA worked with another real estate agent to defraud Regions Bank, which held two mortgages on a residential property in Bridgeport. On December 5, 2007, the other real estate agent, who was a listing agent for the property, received an offer to purchase the property for a price of $132,500. However, NATERA subsequently communicated to Regions Bank that the highest offer to purchase the property was for $102,375 by BOS Asset Management, LLC, an entity that NATERA controlled. The bank agreed to a short sale of the property for the lower price, and released its mortgages on the property.
On June 9, 2008, NATERA, through BOS Asset Management, sold the property for $132,500 to the original bidder on the property.”
I’m ASSUMING this is where you found your example. I know you follow the National News according to your posts, so I have to believe you know about this example of short sale fraud, but by all means if you pulled your example from somewhere else, please let us know.
Again, use your example WHEREVER YOU MAY HAVE DRAWN IT FROM, but use the word scammer, fraudster, etc., but no, you chose to use the word investor.
You write an entire article based around INVESTOR short sale fraud when you have never ever worked with an investor!!!! You’re an expert in INVESTOR short sale fraud right?
It’s like saying, hey don’t buy from used car salesmen because they are scammers and don’t have your best interests at heart. They only want to make the most money off you and you could be stuck with that broken down clunker. *I* on the other hand am a NEW car salesman and have a fiduciary responsibility. I am “knowledgeable, honorable and someone you can trust” unlike the used car salesmen. If you buy my new cars, you’ll never have a problem.
Oh, by the way, I’ve never ever dealt with a used car salesman before but I’ve read they are awful. Not all of them, just a particular few.
“Beware of The Short Sale Investor|Short Sale Fraud” Stereotype
“A short sale investor has one goal in mind and that is to buy your short sale at the lowest number they possibly can. ” Stereotype
“Trust me their pitch is going to be how they are going to be helping you get out of a desperate situation.” Stereotype
“Many agents do not know the 1st thing about short sales and try to learn on the fly.” Stereotyping other agents
“There are numerous Realtors that have begun to take short sale listings that have no experience what so ever completing a short sale transaction.” Stereotyping other agents
“Any Realtor who signs a contract with a seller to sell their home is working for that seller! It is the Realtors fiduciary responsibility to get the seller the best terms and conditions. How can a Realtor do this when there is an inherent conflict of interest? THEY CAN’T. This is a short sale scam!!” – This is not short sale scam – Maybe you should talk to another successful agent that does do this before you make false statements.
Charlotte I have never allowed a short sale investor to take over my deal. Yes that is correct Charlotte. I have however seen a friend get involved with an investor/Realtor team that signed her up for a short sale that never had a shot in the world of being completed.
She was naive and did not read the fine print and was screwed royally. The home at the time it was listed was worth around $200,000. The Realtor put it on the market for $220,000 and the short sale investor he was in cahoots with put in an offer to the bank for $131,000. It was a small local bank and never had a chance of being accepted. The Realtor put one picture in MLS and did nothing to market the property.
The poor woman was doomed from day one and could do nothing about it because she unknowingly signed a ridiculous contract with two very immoral people. She ended up losing her home Charlotte. The investor/Realtor would not let her out of the contract.
So Charlotte just because I have not let an investor control one of my sales does not mean I am not familiar with what does go on! I don’t need to work with short sale investors to be able to discuss the topic.
You really need to stop trying to convince everyone that all investors walk on water. I have no problem telling you or anyone else there are shady people in my business too! You come across as being insensitive to the people that I am actually trying to help.
Like I already told you Charlotte I would have no problem substituting the word Realtor in place of the word investor. In fact if you wrote an article describing a terrible experience with a Realtor you worked with I would probably not doubt you for a moment.
Your analogy with the car salesman is silly. A Realtor has a fiduciary responsibility to their client, NOT YOU Charlotte.
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Massachusetts Title 5 Bedroom Count Deed Restriction
I won’t be commenting on this post anymore, thanks everyone for the fun? discussion.
Bill, I’d love to know where I come across “as being insensitive to the people that you are actually trying to help.”
“The good times for investors and their flips are slowly slipping away and you guys are none too happy about it.”
I have never referred to working with a homeowner in distress as a “good time” as you do, but AGAIN THANKS FOR THE STEREOTYPE. I give you an A+ in that department
From my perspective it’s quite stressful and most homeowners are anxiety ridden, but HEY, glad to know you think I’m having a GOOD TIME!
I’ll be taking my walk across the water now Bill.
Charlotte – This ones for you kid…You inspired me to write my latest short sale post:
http://massrealestatenews.com/realtors-should-not-let-short-sale-investors-negotiate-with-lenders/
Bill Gassett´s last [type] ..Realtors Should Not Let Short Sale Investors Negotiate With Lenders